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Toshiba to restart HD format war?
Posted on 11/06/08 15:25 by Tim Stork
After Toshiba lost the format war and some Chinese manufacturers jumped in with cheap HD-like players and products, rumors indicate a new war between the two giants, Sony and Toshiba. In Japan the press enthusiastically speaks of a possible new DVD upgrade that Toshiba seems to be working on. Main plan behind Toshiba's new production? Killing Blu-ray.
Speculation last week showed that Toshiba's upgrade should match Blu-ray's quality and will be much cheaper. This 'killer' is planned to be available in the far east by the end of this year say several websites. If this new upgrade is cheaper, better and backwards-compatible with standard definition DVDs we can expect a new brawl around Christmas. Currently many see this still as a rumor, but do have a certain hope...
"At this stage it's impossible to say whether Toshiba's digital media silver bullet will also be able to locate Atlantis, cure cancer and make 'Britain's Got Talent - the Live Show' an entertaining use of an evening, but it can only be a matter of time," said Matt Egan for the PC Advisor UK.
If this is true there are still many questions to be answered and lots to be specified.
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By
DukeNukem
Member since: 21 Sep 2005
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Karma: 20090 , Wed 11 Jun 2008 15:57
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Karma: 20090 , Wed 11 Jun 2008 15:57
"Main plan behind Toshiba's new production? Killing Blu-ray."
Yeah, baby. Count me in. Here's my money. Gimmie gimmie gimmie.
By
MrSatyre (guest),
Wed 11 Jun 2008 17:15
Toshiba's plan involves adding extra layers to the DVD format, which essentially is what BD's advantage is (although it uses completely different materials). This in effect would require all DVD replicating facilities to use new disc substrate materials and pressing equipment, which would require retooling and higher costs. These are all the points Toshiba used against BD in their war of FUD. Hypocrisy, thy name is Toshiba.
By
johnzap
Member since: 14 Jan 2004
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Karma: 8370 , Wed 11 Jun 2008 18:06
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Karma: 8370 , Wed 11 Jun 2008 18:06
It appears Toshiba is learning some lessons from their friends, M$, on the "Vaporware" theme.
If they wish to throw some more millions down the toilet, more power to them. 
By
hi-jack (guest),
Wed 11 Jun 2008 18:51
Johnzap is clearly a big BD fan... :-) I'm not...
Every attempt to bring cheaper and good quality content is welcome so if Toshiba want to make another attempt, I ambrace it with open arms...
I liked HD DVD much better than "work in progress" Blu-ray"... Sony needs some kicking in the butt to fall of their pedestal once in a while...
By
Crabbyappleton
Member since: 26 Mar 2003
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Karma: 51620 , Wed 11 Jun 2008 20:52
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Karma: 51620 , Wed 11 Jun 2008 20:52
"Main plan behind Toshiba's new production? Killing Blu-ray."
Ya can't kill something that is already dead.
By
DukeNukem
Member since: 21 Sep 2005
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Karma: 20090 , Wed 11 Jun 2008 20:59
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Karma: 20090 , Wed 11 Jun 2008 20:59
@ hi-jack
"Johnzap is clearly a big BD fan..."
Please stop with the wild, unsubstantiated rumours.
@ Crabbyappleton
"Ya can't kill something that is already dead."
Maybe it's the undead format. Shouldn't we call it Zombie-ray?
This message was edited at: 11-06-2008 21:03
By
johnzap
Member since: 14 Jan 2004
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Karma: 8370 , Thu 12 Jun 2008 00:22
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Karma: 8370 , Thu 12 Jun 2008 00:22
You guys don't understand it. Really. Again: I could care less if Blu-Ray wins or not. Zilch. Nada. I already have my Popcorn Hour for HD content and I'm quite happy with it.
I just like to keep this thing going. Otherwise, this would just be a boring and neverending stream of:
Kill Blu-Ray!
Kill Sony!
Kill!
Someone needs to make you do a little better than that! 
Funny thing is: I'm always thinking "Nah, this time they will not care about what I say.". But lo and behold, you're on it every time. 
By
Crabbyappleton
Member since: 26 Mar 2003
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Karma: 51620 , Thu 12 Jun 2008 01:23
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Karma: 51620 , Thu 12 Jun 2008 01:23
Johnzap: YES WE CARE!!! We are always here for you! 
This message was edited at: 12-06-2008 01:24
By
DukeNukem
Member since: 21 Sep 2005
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Karma: 20090 , Thu 12 Jun 2008 02:26
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@ johnzap
"I already have my Popcorn Hour for HD content and I'm quite happy with it."
Do tell. I've been thinking of getting one. Problem is you can't buy one at the local computer store. Does it take 3.5" HDDs? If so, how big (500GB, 1TB) can you go? Does it do 1080p or just 1080i? Does it play x264 files? Thanks.
"Nah, this time they will not care about what I say."
Heh heh. That might be true if we weren't so fanatical about killing Blu-ray and Sony. Oh, and if we didn't listen to the voices in our heads.
This message was edited at: 12-06-2008 02:27
I think i'd get popcorn hour if they put in an optical drive. I have backed up alot of things onto dvd's, even if they aren't in dvd format, be nice to play them directly on the popcorn hour.
By
Hypnosis4U2NV
Member since: 19 Mar 2001
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Karma: 23220 , Thu 12 Jun 2008 03:25
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Karma: 23220 , Thu 12 Jun 2008 03:25
Im surprised Toshiba even has the money to try this..
But, anything cheaper and just as good is a plus in my eyes..
By
AlexSGV
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Karma: 740 , Thu 12 Jun 2008 06:07
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Karma: 740 , Thu 12 Jun 2008 06:07
Duke's awesome. At this point, he's fueled by pure, triple-filtered Sony hatred. Man doesn't even care if his money goes to new tech that may ultimately fail, as long as it kills Sony. THAT is dedication 
.
Anyway, IF Toshiba does indeed come out with this by the holiday season, I suspect that the price won't be low enough -- maybe $100 to $150. Now, this will probably press Sony to discount Blu-Ray players to $200 or so by then, still getting some people to buy it by some lame pitches like "true HD", etc.
SO, in the end, if people aren't complete morons and buy whatever is thrown at em (which they just might), I suspect that both Toshiba and Sony will take a big hit on the wallet -- Toshiba won't sell enough to break even, and Sony will be hemorrhaging dough due to the forced discount.
Sounds like a good deal. I have no love for either of em.This message was edited at: 12-06-2008 06:11
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DukeNukem
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Karma: 20090 , Thu 12 Jun 2008 14:39
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Karma: 20090 , Thu 12 Jun 2008 14:39
@ Hypnosis4U2NV
"Im surprised Toshiba even has the money to try this.."
Last I heard they lost a billion on HD DVD. That's a drop in the bucket to a company the size of Toshiba. With this new super-upsampler coming out they'll get that back plus some.
@ AlexSGV
"he's fueled by pure, triple-filtered Sony hatred."
Quad-filtered.
By
johnzap
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Karma: 8370 , Thu 12 Jun 2008 17:36
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Karma: 8370 , Thu 12 Jun 2008 17:36
Duke
"Problem is you can't buy one at the local computer store."
Indeed. Only via online ordering. I would prefer to get it at the local shop. But what the heck, I wanted one and one I got.
"Does it take 3.5" HDDs? If so, how big (500GB, 1TB)"
Yes. Also 2.5" (with the common 3.5" -> 2.5" converter). I would recommend 2.5" myself due to heat and noise considerations. But the majority go the 3.5" route. Noise/heat might also be dependent on the drive/manufacturer.
Size: 750GB work, I've seen success reports. Probably 1TB will also work but I'm not sure. If I remember well, Western Digital should be avoided because the interface placement, on the disk, is not properly aligned with the interface on the PH. Samsung and Seagate, should not pose any problem.
Mind you, the interface is IDE, not SATA.
"Does it do 1080p or just 1080i?"
It swallows 1080p files quite happily.
"Does it play x264 files?"
Yeap. mkv, mp4, etc.
Some caveats:
- DTS sound is not decoder, due to licensing costs. Meaning that, if the file has DTS sound, you either need to have the appropriate hardware decoder or you need to reencode the sound to something else, e.g. AC3. It can be easily done via a specially developed tool (audioconverter by "hearthware"). It's a one click solution: easy and fast.
- some types of AAC encoded soundtracks will also not play. It has to do with some specific encoding parameters, which the PH doesn't like. In this case, the only solution is to reencode. Don't know of a 1-click solution.
You can find this and much more at the official PH support forum: www.networkedmediatank.comThis message was edited at: 12-06-2008 17:38
By
DukeNukem
Member since: 21 Sep 2005
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Karma: 20090 , Thu 12 Jun 2008 19:31
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@ johnzap
Thanks for all the info. I think I'll get one.
By
SciFer
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Karma: 3890 , Thu 12 Jun 2008 23:07
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Karma: 3890 , Thu 12 Jun 2008 23:07
'Live Free Die Hard!"
By
DaveBG (guest),
Fri 13 Jun 2008 03:16
The Blu-ray fans and their disinformation about this tech is just another laughable facet of their whole 'hydra' BS.
The killer part of this is that it works with existing SD DVDs.
You don't need anything new, it gives a new lease of life to existing DVD collections.
iHD may reappear with this tech but that is far from certain.
Naturally the movie industry & many of the Blu-ray supporting CE industry hate this cos it is going to wreck their plans to gouge people with a new format.
The Toshiba 'spurs engined' DVD players use a technique forensic video and film labs have used for years.
NASA does it too.
It's real & it works.
You take several frames before the frame you are showing and several after it.
They all contain little different bits of detail to each other.
You combine those differing bits and scale up the resolution to 720p/960p/1080p, whatever.
If they can sell this at DVD prices Blu-ray is in deep trouble (which is why the PS3 kids are out in force bashing this and spreading as much misinformation as possible).
The other interesting part of the tale often over-looked is that they are also going to be building it in to HD TVs as a far more superior upscaling device for SD TV signals, which can only help as some HD TVs look like cr@p handling SD signals (which we will all be watching for some time yet).
....and it's not just Toshiba now, Sharp have licenced the tech too.
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Hypnosis4U2NV
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Karma: 23220 , Fri 13 Jun 2008 03:47
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@DukeNukem;
"Last I heard they lost a billion on HD DVD. That's a drop in the bucket to a company the size of Toshiba."
Im sorry dude, I must have been comparing it to my bucket! 
By
Crabbyappleton
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Karma: 51620 , Fri 13 Jun 2008 04:08
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Karma: 51620 , Fri 13 Jun 2008 04:08
Posted by DaveBG (guest) on Friday 13 June 2008 03:16
"The other interesting part of the tale often over-looked is that they are also going to be building it in to HD TVs as a far more superior upscaling device for SD TV signals, which can only help as some HD TVs look like cr@p handling SD signals (which we will all be watching for some time yet). "
That is VERY interesting indeed! 
Right now, the key to buying an HDTV is to MAKE SURE you watch it on a SD channel first. The ability to scale SD on HDTVs varies wildly and since so much programming is still SD, this is a CRITICAL test prior to deciding on your set.
If you notice, almost ALL HDTV stores will have all their sets on a HD satellite signal- ESPN, Discover Channel, etc. This is because this shows off the capability of the sets in their element and these HD channels are pretty good quality. If you want a BestBuy or any sales person to freak out, ask them to tune in a local SD channel, or worse yet, some lame SD channel that Dish or DirecTV bundles. They may say they don't know how, but tell them to find someone who can. When they change the channel, ALL the sets change and the situation becomes clear which sets cannot display SD. The nervous sales rep will quickly ask: "Are you done?" LOOOL! Because customers are looking at a wall of blurry sh*t and are like: "WTF" at about half the sets that really suck now. Only a handful will still look great.
If what you say is correct (and I bet it is) this advance will be a very desirable feature for future HDTVS - thanks for bringing this to my attention. This message was edited at: 13-06-2008 04:14
By
SciFer
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Karma: 3890 , Fri 13 Jun 2008 04:24
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Karma: 3890 , Fri 13 Jun 2008 04:24
Posted by Crabbyappleton:
"ALL the sets change and the situation becomes clear which sets cannot display SD. The nervous sales rep will quickly ask: "Are you done?" LOOOL! Because customers are looking at a wall of blurry sh*t and are like: "WTF" at about half the sets that really suck now."
You can Vizio to that list.
I should know, I owned a few before upgrading.
By
Billytech (guest),
Fri 13 Jun 2008 14:13
Well, before you go ripping into Toshibas effort, know this...This has been done before, and with excellent results. Case in point? glad you asked.
Remember when VHS started to overtake Beta? when they were able to slow down the tape enough to play in 2,4, and 6 hours times...perfect for movies of the day right? unfortunatelly the sound quality went to hell, and Sony advertise their excellent Beta Hi Fi that recorded sound 20-20000 hertz effortlessly. The reaction from JVC's VHS System, to ALTER SLIGHTLY, the VHS format and add "Multiplex depth recording, to add the VHS Hi Fi track, - The new tapes would play back perfectly, albeit in lower sound quality, than the newer recorder tapes.
Complete success story. Mono ans Stereo records, alter the format slightly, addind stereo records that would play fine, albeit in Mono on the pre-existing phonographs. Not we enter DVD, Toshiba wants to add the "Multiplex depth recording" idea to the pre-existing DVD format. The newer players will access the "Newly added" layer that contains the high-def portion of the recording, while keeping the "Full range" of the recording right where it has always been. This equals full backwards compatibility, Full HD playback of the new discs on the newer players, and using the "Cell processer", be able to give great upscaling to the pre-existing standard discs we all have. This has been done MANY times in out past with great results...It COULD happen again, I for one, hope they succeed.
