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Fox finds Play Station 3 support good enough to back Blu-ray *updated*
Posted on 05/12/05 00:33 by Dan Bell
Fox Film Entertainment has cited Play Station 3 support as reason enough to back Blu-ray and has decided to release all films exclusively in that format. This news comes on the heels of wavering support for Blu-ray due to recent reports of it's restrictive copyright protections policy. While both formats have embraced Advanced Access Content System or AACS for anti-piracy measures. HD-DVD has added Managed Copy and iHD and made the spec part of the mandatory format for their discs, all discs would have to have the ability to provide a copy of the original for private use and the iHD portion is a navigation or menu system to accomplish the goal. With this scheme, we know that we will be able to make at least one copy of a disc and also, it could be streamed from a PC through a home network. Whether this will be free or at added cost is anyones guess at this point, as this is left up to the content provider. It is definitely possible to charge for this feature. As we can read in the correction below, recently, Blu-ray has added Mandatory Managed Copy to their spec but they prefer to not use iHD and have instead decided to develop a Java based navigation system to accomplish their interactivity goals.
Correction: In this story from Reuters we can read that Blu-ray has made Mandatory Managed Copy a part of their spec:
"Mandatory managed copy will be part of Blu-ray format, but while HP's request (for interactivity) is being considered, at this point in time, the Blu-ray group is still proceeding down the path of Java," Blu-ray spokesman Andy Parsons told Reuters in an interview. "We are taking their request seriously, but are not willing to delay the launch and are going to go forward with the Java-type option," he said.
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"We believe that Blu-ray not only has the superior technology and backing in terms of strength to market but also the superior content protection," Fox Filmed Entertainment co-chairman James Gianopulos told attendees Thursday at the Reuters Media and Advertising Summit in New York. |
We have to realize after reading such bold statements, that the real reason behind studios migrating to a new format, is not to give the consumer a more enjoyable experience through high definition. At least with Fox, they are honest about it up front, promising to not use HD-DVD due to it's added features. Good luck with that one Fox!
Sadly, it appears this once exciting new blue laser format has been torn from the brilliant engineers grasp, handed to marketing and become nothing more than a tool to wean us off DVD. Soon, the possibility to charge the end user for actions that we now can perform for free will be possible to implement, thereby increasing cash flow to the studios. This is only possible by divorcing themselves from the weak Content Scrambling System or CSS that is present and easily defeated on todays DVDs. The use of a blue laser makes the switch irreversible and complete.
Too bad Microsoft did not include an HD-DVD drive in the Xbox 360, but it is also possible, that they knew this was trend with the studios was coming and did not want to saddle their consoles with a dead format! You may read the article in it's entirety over at BetaNews by following this link. You can read more about Managed Copy and iHD in this Hewlett Packard press release.
Source: BetaNews
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Bold statement from Fox. Using the word "exclusively" could come back to bite them. If HD becomes the standard and Blu-ray dies like
Beta did, how long will it take Fox to reverse this position? It could even happen before Blu-ray is released if there is a long period between HD-DVD and Blu-ray getting into the hands of consumers.
Seems to me all these moves companies are forgetting what people own right now, no one will bat an eyelid and DVD will reign for years and years to come. Most people still see DVD as new even if the early adopters do not.
yes all these companies expect you to change formats within a year they expect 0 transition time and they will stop making dvd's by the start of 2007. That will show them who has rights.... If you can't tell that was sarcasim every company know's there is going to be baby steps between one format to the other and it will not be for another 5 years until the new format is even considered a average consumer purchase. No one is forcing anyone to buy anything. Sure hddvd and blu ray might be the next laser disc but atleast someone is trying. We live in a world of super fast change so why shouldn't our movie formats be any different (that's a commercial phrase right there)
I've said before, I'll say it again:
The general public is still getting used to DVDs and are not ready to change.
The difference going from VHS to DVD was obvious, even to the average consumer.
The difference from DVD to HD-DVD/Blu-Ray is not.
I hope both formats die miserably.
Yhe only "progress" these companies have made with HD media technology is the complete shafting of the consumer's rights. Once people's awareness of what these companie s have done starts to kick in they will give this technology the flicK and stay with a proven format - DVD.
I'm glad we have a place to discuss topics like this and the rip off's that are headed our way. Like I'm going to upgrade my whole system to be able to watch a movie on a new disc format. It will hardly be noticeable on a standard tv anyway. I hope the consumers are not stupid enough to support this new crap. Then again, my parents are pretty clueless.. lol, and when I tried explaining this new format to them, my dad said "There is nothing wrong with DVD's now, I'm not paying more for something that is already good enough, and too expensive".
I find all this anti next generation DVD stuff interesting. when low res tv is cut off around 2010 (or whatever you country has regulated), what you will do?
Go and hug you mold DVD Movies and thats all you watch? i think most people will only buy new BR/HD-DVD discs as needed (EG they have new played as old died an new player supports it).
For the moment most consumers cant see the difference. But my family has all HD TVs and ya can see the difference extremely clearly/easily. As time goes on comsumers will learn as they see their friends TVs being nice sharper pics..
Its simple education, those who have really watched HD TV to those who dont. You can spot comments those people who dont watch HD TV often.
Little flaw in that thinking isn't there? Where are all those billions of regular TV's going in 4 years. Where did you get that idea? In 2010 (less then 5 years) 3 billion people are going to find $3000 and run out to bestbuy to get a HDTV? If 5% of the people buy into HDTV where is the other 95% going? Right where they are now in front of the same TV and cable with DVD's. And if they only make HDTV format discs those companies just cut their business models and revenue streams by 95%. They will continue making DVD movies for a long time to come.
Well I suppose the obvious thing to say to that is that HDTV will not cost $3000 in 5 years, will be down to the same price as a standard TV.
And Blu-Ray always had a massive advantage over HD-DVD when it came to the Playstation 3, as there will be millions of these worldwide by the end of 2006 and that is a nice customer base for a new technology.Wonder what FOX is gonna do when PS3 tanks because people don't want anything to do with Sony? If I had a buck for every time I saw "I've cancelled my PS3 order" on a blog...
The PS3 will be too little too late everyone is going to get the xbox 360 and the head start the 360 will have on the ps3 will be too much to over come for sony.
Also do people remember how good the ps2 was at playing dvd movies. It sucked elephant nob.
What makes people think that the ps3 is going to be that good at playing hdtv movies from a unstabble unreleased format that will be released after the consol.
Sony are only using hd blueray so that they can hide what there real intentions are and thats to force consumers to buy the same film over and over every time they change or update there hardware or damage the disc.
When you buy a dvd or whatever the price is no way representitive of what it cost to make that dvd which incures that the consumer is also paying for the right to watch that content as much as they like. However if we are not allowed to change convert and transport that content to any other format that then suggests that we are no longer paying for a license to view that content but rather paying good money for old rope.
This generally makes the price they charge for a little piece of plastic from which the consumer has no licecsing rights surly fraudulent.
This generally makes the price they charge for a little piece of plastic from which the consumer has no licensing rights surly fraudulent.
People will buy the PS3 no matter how bad Sony is at publicity for themselves. The average gamer isn't going to give a damn about a DRM thing they don't understand that happened 6months to a year ago(From the perspective of the PS3 release date). And Microsoft isn't exactly the most popular firm around but it seems to be doing alright with the Xbox. People just don't make much of a connection in their mind between these massive companies and the consoles.
Also marketing figures I have seen suggest that the PS3 will at the very least sell 3 million units in Japan alone in the first 2 years. Even if it does end up getting beaten by the Xbox there will be a lot of Blu-Ray capable PS3's out there, and a lot of people will but it for the Blu-Ray capacity once the discs start appearing on the market.(admittedly that does depend on Sony getting the thing working as a player correctly, but I find it hard to believe they would make such a massive mistake as it would cost them a lot of sales)
Of course these discs are still a while away before they become mainstream so we'll just have to wait and see 
There is no cut off for ANY low res TV in any country that I'm aware of, there is however a cut off for Analogue TV in some, for the UK it's 2012. So if you've not got a TV with "Freeview" built in or a seperate box your old analogue TV will stop receiving a signal...What "wavering support" does the article refer to? Bill Gates? Gates is just upset that BluRay didn't buy into certain technology that would have given him royalties. You have to take his comments with a huge grain of salt. If anyone really believes that HD-DVD will be less restrictive than BluRay, you're being deceived.
HD-DVD has mandatory managed copy and iHD in it's spec. Blu-ray does not. Fox just told us to go to hell. So I am not happy with Blu-ray not mandating managed copy, as now Fox can produce discs that will not be (theoretically) copyable or streamed. This is what consumers need to be aware of before supporting this new format."Only HD-DVD has added Managed Copy"
"Blu-ray has left Managed Copy a voluntary decision"
That's just false! Blu-Ray has always had Managed Copy and recently made it "mandatory". How about a link from this very site: http://www.cdfreaks.com/news2.php?ID=12701
"...promising to not use HD-DVD due to it's added features"
What? What "added features" does HD-DVD have?
What a hateful, bitter, and completely false article.
I can see why you say that but, because the way it is all being hyped it is quite confusing. Yes blu-ray finally adopted "mandatory" managed copy.
But from todays article we can read: "But Fox and other studios like the strict technology that will prevent consumers from utilizing future movies as freely as current DVDs. HD DVD employs more lax copy controls and ensures support for streaming movies to different locations throughout the home."
That's what I am talking about when I say "added features". This sounds like it is ensured only in HD-DVD to me!
It is my understanding that the Blu-ray scheme has still left managed copy up to the content provider as the AACS system can be overridden. Fox has been animate about this from the get go and they want studios to be able to call the shots, not follow a more lax spec. That is why I said: "Blu-ray has left Managed Copy a voluntary decision for the content providers on a disc by disc basis." Check out this article to see where I am coming from. If the situation has changed, please let me know and I can retract the statement. But I don't think it has changed after reading todays quote! 
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/12616
The article may seem bitter to you, but I am just trying to let people know what is going on. We must be sure that we are fully armed with all possible information prior to going to a new format. The more we know and discuss and react upon, the better our chances are to support the correct format and ensure it's future.[edited by Crabbyappleton on 05.12.2005 20:53]
Manged copy is a scam. Why do you want it? It's just the movie studios way of controlling fair use. It's wrose than any DRM out there because it sounds like a good thing. It's the first step in making drm *good* to the consumer.
I'd rather have the mpaa make it impossible for us to copy hi-def content just for a short while so that consumers get pissed enough to repeal the dmca.
This is in respond to earlier statements about the technology acceptance. At least in the US the FCC has already set a date and since it didn't go as planned they set it back to much later time giving the opportunity for people to switch over to HDTV broadcast (or cable and satelite). Then there is strong trend for these flat panel TVs that are HD compatible and people are starting to become aware. Yesterday, the Domino's Pizza delivery man came to drop of our pizza, noticed my LCD HDTV and commented that he just bought one but can't get it to look the same way as mine or at the store. I educated him and he know he knows what to do to get the best out of his investment. It's only a matter of time before word of mouth educates people and when they find out how much better their movies will look. Of course I would never buy HiDef movie if already own it on DVD (unless it's something I truly must have), I would just buy new releases.[edited by SciFer on 06.12.2005 02:25]
Sorry for typos and grammer, I was unable to re-edit.
Anyways, we as a society are adapting to newer technology faster then ever before. Yes, older generations don't like change but younger generations and people who like to embrace new technology are always keeping with latest and greatest, which is most people here. So while the DVD will still be around for long time, its time will too soon pass just like they're recently annouced that some retail stores will stop carrying VHS.
Edit: removed commercial link[edited by Crabbyappleton on 06.12.2005 03:21]
Honestly, I appreciate the acknowledgement of counter arguments and a reasonable response.
I read the article you linked that was dated 11/1. I realize that was the Blu-Ray group's previous position. But after that article was written, the Blu-ray group changed course and decided to enforce mandatory managed copy on all Blu-Ray discs. The article I linked is dated 11/18 and reflects this.
We can only speculate as to exactly what Fox was referring to by saying "HD DVD employs more lax copy controls". They may be referring to a more minor detail such as the ability of Blu-Ray to support dynamically switching encryption midstream on a disc. The main point, however, is that there isn't any actual evidence or even credible rumor that the DRM on one format is any more restrictive than the other.
There is a definite technology basis for this format war. But this is clearly more of a political battle on both sides. Your post echoes recent PR by Microsoft execs; that PR is really nonsense meant to sway public opinion. The real reasons that Microsoft is rallying behind HD-DVD and against Blu-Ray are very clear and completely political:
- The fate and fortune of Blu-Ray is strongly tied to that of the PS3. Obviously, the PS3 is the chief rival to Microsoft's Xbox 360 in a key market that Microsoft strongly covets and has sunk *billions* into taking.
- Blu-Ray is based on BD-J as opposed to HD-DVD being based on iHD. BD-J is based on Java and related technologies. Java is the chief competitor to Microsoft technologies in many markets. The enterprise softwre market is largely split between Microsoft centric .NET solutions and Java solutions. iHD is a Microsoft developed technology with a more Microsoft centric approach. One of these technologies will be pushed on developers and content producers everywhere. In the battle for mindshare, guess who wants which technology to win?
Microsoft PR isn't just going to come out and bluntly say, "We support HD-DVD because it weakens PS3 and provides an Xbox advantage and because it undermines Java and builds mindshare for Microsoft related technology such as iHD". Of course, they say something more diplomatic and persuassive and frame their preference is questionable technical statements. Of course, Sony has political motives as well, but I don't think anyone doubts that.
Read what a senior HP exec said before their "waivering" (likely pressure from their close partners Microsoft and Intel):
http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/09/30/hp_fires_back_at_microsoft/
I appreciate your attempt to spread accurate information, but I really think you just bought the Microsoft PR at face value and don't see the other angles.
"I appreciate your attempt to spread accurate information, but I really think you just bought the Microsoft PR at face value and don't see the other angles."
Believe it or not, I felt the same way as you do now, last week. But now, I *think* and so do a lot of others that the Blu-ray spec will allow the overriding of the AACS. I am starting to believe Gates is afraid that his media centers will be hurt if there is not managed copy on EVERY movie disc. and of course iHD is his. I mean Vista the first new OS from Redmond in 5 years is most likely going to include the present Media Center Edition. Without managed copy, we can't do anything with a disc but play it back! Fox is threatening that they may not go for streaming and so they need Bluray, this scares me. Why do they need Bluray? What is different?
Gates says to hell with Blu-ray it's anti-consumer and anti PC and MS has embraced HD-DVD for now. Does he know something we don't? Too bad for him, as 80% of all content will be going on Blu-ray, though some studios will use both formats. What a mess eh?
Like you say, we just need more CONCRETE information. It is extremely difficult to know what is true at this point. It can change too. I just think we need to keep digging. I am constantly changing my opinion on what is the best format for the consumer (Us) due to daily news reports. This is why I said that the product was stripped from the brilliant engineers and now marketing has it and it seems they are screwing it up bad.
We will be at the January 2006 CES this year (just as we were last year) and I can assure you, we will be asking both camps what in the heck is the straight scoop on the DRM. Just what will we be guaranteed to be able to do with each format? We are looking forward to the advancement of optical storage and its flexible use about the home and what will be possible over a network. All this DRM wrangling is about to ruin the party. A lot of people in the industry besides content providers need to be able to access this content for their products to work and drive the software and consumer electronics industry.
Believe me, I hope you are right in your feelings about Gates, that this is all just about java and Xbox. But, lets also be sure to consider that it could be about Hollywood and about control of their content. Let's keep watching and see...I did make a change in the story though as you are right that Blu-ray has stated that Mandatory Managed Copy will be part of the spec. I stand corrected, thank you![edited by Crabbyappleton on 06.12.2005 06:50]
OK, I understand your point a little better. You agree that there are really no publically announced differences in DRM rights since they now both support mandatory managed copy. You are reading between the lines of the statements and actions of Microsoft and Fox and you are speculating that there *will* be significant licensing rights differences that haven't been announced and the public just doesn't yet know about.
That's actually a reasonable point of view. But you have to admit, it's still speculation. My only remaining criticism is that the article you wrote doesn't suggest this. I appreciate the correction you added, but you really should more thoroughly edit the article. For example:
"Only HD-DVD has added Managed Copy and iHD and made the spec part of the mandatory format for their discs, all discs would have to have the ability to provide a copy of the original for private use and the iHD portion is a navigation or menu system to accomplish the goal"
You agree this isn't true: Blu-Ray does support mandatory managed copy. And the iHD issue is totally irrelevant to any point on DRM and intellectual property rights. Unless you are trying to claim some other advantage of iHD over BD-J, you should omit the reference.
I agree that there is a lot the public doesn't know about. We will definitely get a lot more harder evidence during the January CES show. I hope you listen with an objective ear and I look forward to reading what you discover.
Thanks again for responding to a reader!
I agree also with what you say today and have edited the article further. It seems right up to the minute to me now. Thank you for taking the time to give your thoughts![edited by Crabbyappleton on 06.12.2005 14: